Bug / user error. UP fingering c# sometimes flipps and gives c

[Narzog]

So I have a really annoying issue that I cant figure out if I'm doing somethign wrong, need to change a setting, or if its just a bug. When I'm paying UP, in UP mode, sometimes my x oxx xxxx x fingering for C# will randomly become c. And to make it play c#, I have to x oox xxxx x, which is backwards. I can only get it to reset by taking all my fingers off the WARBL and releasing the bag. Then while I'm playing it will just happen again.

[admin]

This sounds to me like it might be related to vibrato. If you're not using the "custom" vibrato with uilleann fingering, the vibrato will sometimes "latch" and stay on until you change fingering. The normal vibrato isn't very well suited to instruments like uilleann that use closed fingering patterns, so I highly recommend turning on the "custom vibrato" switch if you're using uilleann fingering. If that doesn't solve the problem, let me know and I'll research this further. Thanks!

[Narzog]

Ok I did more troubleshooting. I'm just bad and dumb haha. I think one of my 2 fingers from my right hand was slightly slipping off the hole, making it want to finger a C nat. and what I figured out from testing, is if I then let go of my middle finger on my left hand, it will play a C# from C, but only if my right hand is messed up. If my right hand isnt messed up, it wont be backwards, and it will be playing a C# as intended. And the other reason I'm dumb is I derped and thought C nat fingering was different than it is. So it playing a C from one of my right hand fingers being off makes perfect sense.

Although bonus fingering feedback, it seems to play a C nat from only removing 1 of my 2 fingers on my right hand. But I believe its supposed to be both removed. Not sure how hard it would be to implement it needing both off to play right, and then only 1 off will be bent out of tune.

[admin]

I just looked at the fingering chart, and in general your right hand shouldn't play any role in controlling whether it plays a C# or C natural. If the L1 hole is uncovered and both L2 and L3 are covered, it should play a C natural, and if either L2 or L3 are uncovered, it should play a C#.

There is one exception to the above rule, which is that if every hole except L1 is covered, it will play a C#. I'm not exactly sure why that is, but it's from Michael Eskin's fingering charts that he used for his uilleann iOS apps. If that particular combination seems incorrect I could probably change it. I'm not a piper myself, so I do like to confirm these things with pipers before making changes.

Below I'll paste all the possible fingerings for C3 and C natural from the firmware, which may help to clarify. The fingers shown are starting with L1 from the left.

0000000 C#
0000001 C#
0000010 C#
0000011 C#
0000100 C#
0000101 C#
0000110 C#
0000111 C#
0001000 C#
0001001 C#
0001010 C#
0001011 C#
0001100 C#
0001101 C#
0001110 C#
0001111 C#
0010000 C#
0010001 C#
0010010 C#
0010011 C#
0010100 C#
0010101 C#
0010110 C#
0010111 C#
0011000 C#
0011001 C#
0011010 C#
0011011 C#
0011100 C#
0011101 C#
0011110 C#
0011111 C#
0100000 C#
0100001 C#
0100010 C#
0100011 C#
0100100 C#
0100101 C#
0100110 C#
0100111 C#
0101000 C#
0101001 C#
0101010 C#
0101011 C#
0101100 C#
0101101 C#
0101110 C#
0101111 C#
0110000 C
0110001 C
0110010 C
0110011 C
0110100 C
0110101 C
0110110 C
0110111 C
0111000 C
0111001 C
0111010 C
0111011 C
0111100 C
0111101 C
0111110 C
0111111 C#

[elbowpipe]

I haven't checked every one of these but on the uilleann pipes 0111100 should give C#
The 2nd and 3rd fingers on the RH are key to obtaining CNat, raising the 1st finger or pinkie (RH) on their own or together sharpens to midway between CNat and C#. Unlike the whistle, UPs are miserly when it comes to lifting fingers to obtain notes (in the interests of 'tight' staccato playing), so 1st finger LH and 2nd finger RH are all that should feature when it comes to C/C# . Sometimes opening the 3rd finger (RH) can allow C more expression.

[admin]

Thanks-- would changing 0111100 to C# solve the issues you're having? If you'd like to look at some point and see if there are any others that should be changed, then I could run your suggestions by Michael and then add the changes to the firmware.

[elbowpipe]

Yes, that would be great thanks. I haven't noticed any other fingering problems, unless staccato triplets might be an issue (eg. open 1st finger RH, close it exactly as you open the 2nd finger, close 2nd exactly as you open 3rd finger). I haven't been able to get them crisp but I put it down to getting used to the hole distances. Perhaps theoretically these kind of triplets aren't possible on the WARBL? I appreciate you're achieving a whole lot across a range of instruments and uilleann pipers might have to be satisfied with a more legato style of playing. But the C# thing - I never realised how important it is, playing in A major, top hand triplets etc.

[admin]

Okay, thanks! The attached firmware should do the trick if you'd like to try it.

Regarding triplets, I don't think any electronic chanter will have a response quite as fast as the real thing, which might be part of the issue. However, it might help to fine-tune the calibration of the individual toneholes. Not being a piper myself I haven't spent much time trying to play staccato, but I can see how the triplets could be a challenge. I'd be curious to hear if it improves for you over time.

[elbowpipe]

Thanks for that. Yeah, I've begun fine-tuning individual holes with pleasing results. That was going to be my next area of exploration with regard to triplets. I'll feedback next week on the firmware but I'm just off to Uilleann Piping International Day in Glasgow for the weekend.

[admin]

Great, have fun!!