Sax Fingerings

[2Dog]

“. The release version of 1.6 might not end up having any sax fingering, as I want to solidify which version to include first.”

Thanks for the heads up.

[ubizmo]

I noticed one error in the comparison chart: For my middle C, you've listed the two possible fingerings as X|OXO|OOOO and X|XXX|XXXX. The first should be O|OXO|OOOO, since I'm using open thumb as the first octave position, and on a sax you don't use the octave key until D2. The second fingering is the alternate, which sounds wonky on a real sax.

And as I indicated above, my fingering can be extended down to E as well, and up to C#4 (or 5, using your octave numbering), so your system has a bit more range. I think mine is a bit more intuitive, but that's a subjective thing. I'd be interested to see what others think. Maybe take it to SaxOnTheWeb!

[2Dog]

Made the change to C and found an error in c# so I updated my earlier post. I love the fact that Andrew chose to let us go back and edit posts. Whatever system Andrew picks, I hope he does extend as low as he can. While learning I turned off over-blow and there is still plenty of range for practicing scales and most music. At some point I will go back to the jump settings and make the necessary adjustments as I found if you repeat the same note in the OB range you get false notes if the settings are not right.

I have posted on SOTW but not seeing any interest. I think those guys are hard core acoustic although there is a good thread on the AE10. We should compare all suggestions. The beauty of this beast is that you don't have to upgrade so if the fingerings are eliminated I will just stick with the bata as I suites my needs and reduced my learning curve. I only use the sax fingerings in bag mode. For those who don't play other wind-controllers it might not seem completely intuitive at first.

[ubizmo]

I've only played the AE05, which is of course sax-like to the bone. I agree that more range is better, although I still prioritize fingering. I also find it odd that the OB needed to change octaves varies quite a bit depending on what app I'm using. It seems to me that shouldn't matter, but it clearly does. But that's for another thread. We need more input on fingering.

[2Dog]

String sounds are more forgiving and cover false notes then say a piano sound. The same sound may not respond to one controller and work fine with another. The sounds that I settled on did not respond well with my settings on the AE but work great with the WARBL.

This thread now has gone over 8k views! Would like to know if anybody is using the fingerings and would like their opinion.

[dborgo]

Hi All, I’ve read thru a bit of this discussion and would like to add my take (as a professional sax player and professor who also plays whistle and recorder and EWI and Sylphyo). I don’t think it is wise or necessary to duplicate the quirks of the bottom and top of a saxophone. One octave of fingerings repeated is just fine. To change octaves I’ve been placing my right thumb between the first two buttons (I put a piece of thick tape there so I can find the spot) and assigning them to octave up and down. Going down an octave I press lower button once, and going up I press upper button twice, since the instrument in overblow mode has two octaves available to it.

I personally think it is important to maintain the possibility of finger vibrato and glissandos as much as possible, since that is what sets this controller apart from the EWI and Sylphyo, etc.

I agree that for sax-like fingerings the thumb hole should act as an octave key, so open is lower octave and closed is upper octave (contrary to a recorder). Here are the fingerings I suggest (and simply repeat at the octave with the thumb hole closed in overblow mode):

D- X X X I X X X O
Eb- X X X I X X X X (like adding the Eb key on a sax)
E- X X X I X X O O
F- X X X I X O O O
F#- X X X I O X O O
G- X X X I O O O O (I would want finger vibrato on F, F# and G to be possible using the right hand ring and pinky fingers)
Ab- X X O I 2 or more covered RH holes (still allows vibrato on A with RH index finger)
A- X X O I O O O O
Bb- X O O I any combination of RH covered holes (still allows vibrato on B with LH ring finger)
B- X O O I O O O O
C- O X O I O O O O
C#- O O O I O O O O

* D (8va)- O X X I X X X O (whistle fingering should be allowed)

[2Dog]

Thanks. I'll add this to my spread sheet to see how it compares. Didn't want to use buttons as i don't think they would hold up with as much playing as I am doing and plan to do. I think the way finger vibrato is working now would be wonky as it only bends down, from what i understand and every time I played with it made everything feel a little flat. Most likely I didn't have the right settings and I admit I didn't spend much time with it.

[admin]

Thanks again for the input, all. To add my 2 cents, I like the simplicity of this last one and the fact that all octaves are the same (with the exception of the thumb). You could get three octaves using a combination of the thumb and overblow, and use the buttons in "momentary" mode for occasional forays into other octaves.

[2Dog]

Hi All, I’ve read thru a bit of this discussion and would like to add my take (as a professional sax player and professor who also plays whistle and recorder and EWI and Sylphyo). I don’t think it is wise or necessary to duplicate the quirks of the bottom and top of a saxophone. One octave of fingerings repeated is just fine. To change octaves I’ve been placing my right thumb between the first two buttons (I put a piece of thick tape there so I can find the spot) and assigning them to octave up and down. Going down an octave I press lower button once, and going up I press upper button twice, since the instrument in overblow mode has two octaves available to it.

I personally think it is important to maintain the possibility of finger vibrato and glissandos as much as possible, since that is what sets this controller apart from the EWI and Sylphyo, etc.

I agree that for sax-like fingerings the thumb hole should act as an octave key, so open is lower octave and closed is upper octave (contrary to a recorder). Here are the fingerings I suggest (and simply repeat at the octave with the thumb hole closed in overblow mode):

D- X X X I X X X O
Eb- X X X I X X X X (like adding the Eb key on a sax)
E- X X X I X X O O
F- X X X I X O O O
F#- X X X I O X O O
G- X X X I O O O O (I would want finger vibrato on F, F# and G to be possible using the right hand ring and pinky fingers)
Ab- X X O I 2 or more covered RH holes (still allows vibrato on A with RH index finger)
A- X X O I O O O O
Bb- X O O I any combination of RH covered holes (still allows vibrato on B with LH ring finger)
B- X O O I O O O O
C- O X O I O O O O
C#- O O O I O O O O

* D (8va)- O X X I X X X O (whistle fingering should be allowed)

When I first started WARBL I was hitting the buttons by mistake so I put velcro( fuzzy side) between the buttons and one near the thumb hole and that works well. As I use mine in bag mode I need to stabilize with the right hand thumb so using buttons also for octave shifting is not in my future. I have turned off over-blow as I learn and the range is still good with the bata. As a compromise, maybe the top button set up for momentary octave up and then when release it would go back down to replace using over-blow my work as maybe I could role my thumb onto the button and keep stability. It would be very un-sax-like or even wind-controller using two thumbs for octave shifting but then again so is over-blow. I am in bag mode so over-blow takes some getting used to. You don't stay in the 2nd upper octave much reading sax music so I don't understand the use of an octave up button and then having to hit another octave button to get out of it.


PLEASE LOOK OVER THE CHART TO SEE IF I UNDERSTOOD YOUR SUGGESTION:

Sax Fingering Compare.jpg (215.59 KiB) Viewed 6365 times

Sax Fingering Compare 2.jpg (195.46 KiB) Viewed 6365 times

[admin]

Thanks for compiling all this. I guess the good thing is that there’s quite a bit of overlap...