Add MiniSax fingerings

Use this forum to report bugs or request new features for WARBL, including fingering chart suggestions.
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danjcla
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Add MiniSax fingerings

Post by danjcla » Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:48 am

The MiniSax is a stainless steel reed instrument with 6 front holes and 1 back hole. It requires half-fingering for some notes, but I think the WARBL's 7th front hole could be used to substitute for this.

Fingering Chart: Page 4 of https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... -start.pdf

Main Site: https://www.minisax.com/

(No need to work on this unless you feel like it or someone else wants it; if I decide to go the MiniSax route I can work on this.)

2Dog
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Re: Add MiniSax fingerings

Post by 2Dog » Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:36 pm

Check out the Extended Sax fingering as that is what was done. . The 7th hole is used to sharpen/flatten the notes that use side keys on the Sax. There is a 3 octave range and you can set it to get the upper octave using overblown setting or you can set it to bell register to play the bottom octave. Using over blow is ok to pop off one note but to keep playing in that upper register gets funky. It is much easer to play the lower octave with the bell sensor pressed against your leg. You still have good range with just playing in two octaves for most music.

I have never played the Minisax but I suspect it would be a real challenge to get the half hole finger in tune. Watched the videos and the tone is not pleasing.

Now if somebody would develop a device like this using the WARBL to attach to a modified Sax mouthpiece with a sensor in the mouthpiece for lip bend and vibrato I would be first in line. The WARBL already has the pressure sensor but I think the easier electrical connect to the WARBL would be an external cable connecting to the WARB’s usb and then out to regular usb for midi out. This would be a great accessory but would require programming the WARBL and I don’t think it has the storage space. Most likely would be patent issues as this is how wind controllers did it going back to the 80’s analog Lyricon. The EWIs use a different and less desirable system (opinion). The other challenge would be to have the proper user configurability in the set up app. The AE 10 does the best job but doesn’t please everyone.

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danjcla
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Re: Add MiniSax fingerings

Post by danjcla » Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:45 pm

2Dog wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:36 pm
Now if somebody would develop a device like this using the WARBL to attach to a modified Sax mouthpiece with a sensor in the mouthpiece for lip bend and vibrato I would be first in line.
There is this, but it's twice as expensive as the WARBL and not open source: Travel Sax https://www.odiseimusic.com/copia-de-travel-sax

IMHO it would be great if there was a 8th hole on the front of the WARBL, would make it possible to emulate an additional large varairy of mini/pocket saxes and clarinets. But perhaps would be too distracting for others.

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danjcla
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Re: Add MiniSax fingerings

Post by danjcla » Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:18 pm

Actually this one is around the same price as the WARBL, but markets don't really overlap, as it is laid out more like a sax than a woodwind.

Vindor ES2
http://vindormusic.com/

2Dog
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Re: Add MiniSax fingerings

Post by 2Dog » Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:31 pm

I was following that with interest but for the money I decided not to take a chance as it is not one of the major brand's product. I already had the Roland AE 10 so it didn't add anything for me. I do like the form factor and color. It is more along the lines of a stubbier WX 5.

The WARBL, on the other hand, had a no brainer price for what you get so it was well worth taking a chance. I have found that the WARBL's support far exceeds that of the major brands of wind controllers.

I was referring to just a midi mouth piece that would attach to the WARBL. I have and use a TEC bite controller along with the WARBL in bag mode for lip vibrato but it is very challenging to play like that and be effective. That does not attach to the WARBL so it is just another midi feed to the software. It has a neck holder. The TEC is more like the EWI mouth piece as you use your teeth in a chewing action for vibrato. If your head is down you tend to droll. Pipers and whistlers use finger vibrato so I am going in that direction now.

2Dog
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Re: Add MiniSax fingerings

Post by 2Dog » Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:47 pm

danjcla wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:18 pm
Actually this one is around the same price as the WARBL, but markets don't really overlap, as it is laid out more like a sax than a woodwind.

Vindor ES2
http://vindormusic.com/
I have been following that since the kickstarter and there are posts about it on another windcontroller forum. That seems to check off many of your ideas but there are a few things I would want before I spend my next stimulus check. Has more buttons and octave keys. You can configure your own fingerings. Have to study the clarinet fingerings as their quick start page shows it only going down to F. That would not be too useful but you maybe able to shift notation down an octave and then it might be usable. The WARBL has me spoiled now with bag mode so I need to know if it a closed system and if a tube could be inserted into the breath sensor. A fat white WARBL, if you will. Can't find much on youtube demoing the pitch bend. Hate the white but a little spray job may solve that. The posts on the other forum are a year old and complain about things not working and they haven't updated their posts. The ES2 may have solved those issue but can't tell. Marketing is aimed at the beginner and the analog internal sound in not pleasing me. They could leave the internal sounds out and reduce the price but again, it is aimed at the beginner sax market. Don't think it would appear to the WARBL market due to the capacity sensitive key functionality and the mp. The reed is not functional but may attract recorder and whistle players.

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danjcla
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Re: Add MiniSax fingerings

Post by danjcla » Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:39 am

Yeah I looked around more re: the ES2 a few weeks back, and there was too much negative posted about it for me to consider getting it instead of a WARBL (plus I'm a massive fan of open source and really want to support WARBL because of that A+ moral/ethical/hacker-friendly decision.) As I recall most of it was w.r.t. build quality and software bugs (which of course you can never fix yourself as it is closed.)

The conclusion I came to is that if I wanted something more sax-like, the Roland AE-01 Aerophone Mini would make a lot more sense, way better reviews, only $100 more than the ES2 new, and often available for the same price or less lightly used. But at the moment I'm thinking I'm going with the Alto Recorder as my physical instrument, as it's the simplest instrument that has a decent classical repertoire, and I'd like to do duets with my dad (who plays classical piano) at some point in the future, in addition to any more improvisational / EDM type stuff I may want to play around with.

And it'll give me an excuse to buy a WARBL :-)

2Dog
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Re: Add MiniSax fingerings

Post by 2Dog » Mon Aug 24, 2020 2:39 pm

Good choice going for WARBL. I did end up getting the ES2 and they are different animals just like the rest of the wind controllers. The posts are about the ES1 as the ES2 just came out in July 2020. I can see how people can be negative when they try to compare one wind controller to another. I have seen "unboxing" videos about the same controller that I like end up completely negative as they didn't go through the learning curve and then review.

For example, I have had wind controllers with, keys, sensing holes and sensing keys that don't move. There is a learning curve to each system. Sometimes you hate it in the beginning and then up getting use to it and like. Unfortunately sometimes people post the negative and then when they like it they don't post.

Andrew has it all together by sponsoring this forum, responding to emails and staying focused on his core pipe and whistle player market . You can't get that kind or communication from the big guys. Even after paying 3 1/2 WARBls for the controller.

The verdict hasn't come in about Vindor as they were excellent a few weeks ago but they went silent and they are sold out. I haven't needed support as I was able to find enough info and find work arounds on my own. Their web site has not been updated for the ES2 and I have had to do a lot more trial and error testing because of it.

I have learned a lot testing it as you can code your own fingerings, use sampling and hack it with a bag. The ES2 had enough keys to allow me to program Bb clarinet-like fingerings which are just as convoluted as the real thing. I can now understand why no other wind controller offers such fingerings. Even the ES2's stock "clarinet" fingering didn't come close. There is probably no market for it.

I was also able to test my chording fingering theory and discover that because you need to support the instrument while playing there was too much room for error in playing a controller like that. Also there was no value as the controller was not polyphonic like a midi keyboard. I have learned that building samples is a very complex and time consuming task for a novice. I can now understand why good vsts are so expensive. I am not sure about sampling yet and it may best be left up to computer software for playback. I think you need to have an on board sample player as sophisticated as Kontakt to be effective for the sounds that I want to use. I have very expensive vsts on my Mac (one costs as much as 2 WARBLs) so I doubt I will be using the on-board sampler much but who knows. Others may use samplers very differently than I do for current popular "music". I learned that the form factor of the WARBL is much more suitable for playing with a bag.

Andrew has supported the coding and bag part.

I have 3 wind controllers now and would not sell any of them even if you offered me more than I paid for them ( unless it was an offer I couldn't refuse). I have sold 4 before and would not take them back even if you gave them to me. Others love them and wouldn't switch.

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